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Love is indomitable – LGBTQIA+ stories of love and life in the 21st century is a monthly interview series conducted by Ronan Farrow and five other interviewers. Ever since Pride Month 2021, a new interview is included in our monthly issue of Vanity Fair. It is important to the creators of this project that Love is indomitable transcends the boundaries of Pride Month. Because while June is an important month for LGBTQIA+ visibility and liberation, Pride doesn’t stop on the 30th of June. LGBTQIA+ people don’t disappear and their stories need to be told every day.
©Ronan Farrow, June 2022
For my last interview our interview series, I am invited to an address in Brooklyn. Before I enter the building – a beautiful brownstone – I am greeted by a friendly Secret Service agent who guides me up the stairs of the house onto a sunlit roof, where my two guests are waiting. There has only been a tiny circle of people knowing beforehand. The whole interview wasn’t planned to be in the original outline for the Love is indomitable series but when my interviewees sister approached me with the suggestion, I could not have said anything but yes. Even before I set foot onto the roof, before I shake their hands, I know I am stepping into a piece of modern history in the making. There is a sense of responsibility that settles on my shoulders, knowing that this story will most definitely be the one most talked about in the series. It will also probably “break the internet” as I’m sure twitter will dub it. Though both my interviewees expressed their wish that they would rather it wouldn’t happen that way, they are both aware of the positions they hold and the public international interest that comes with it.
Still, this is big. It’s a story that crosses boarders and merges international relationships. It’s a story about finding family and love, against all odds, despite traditions and politics pitted against you. It’s a coming out. But it’s also, simply, a story of two people who love each other.
Today I am talking to FSOTUS Alexander Claremont-Diaz and HRH Prince Henry of Wales.
As I greet them, two things are immediately clear. One: Neither Mr. Claremont-Diaz nor HRH Prince Henry care much for titles which is why I am going to refer to them as Alex and Henry in the following as per their own request. Two: they are undeniably, completely in love with each other. Both move around each other with an ease nearly inexplicable to the outside view and interact with a care and attention to each other I haven’t seen in many couples. They share little looks and gestures that stay incomprehensible to my outsider’s eyes. And they don’t have to be any other way – it makes their love known in every inch and movement, the way they understand each other is uniquely their own. One of my goals with this series is to illustrate just that – the pure love and care couples have for each other, in all its facets and variations.
RF: Before we get started with the questions, I want to quickly clue the readers in to the process behind this. As I understand it, you two hope for this to be as little overshadowing as possible, right?
Alex: Exactly. Obviously, we can’t control what the media does to this outside of the interview itself. Twitter in particular is a force to be reckoned with for sure. But the thing we want to stress is, that we aren’t the only ones. We are not some heroes with capes. Just two men who hold more than average power and media interest than most of the rest of the world. The whole project, all the interviews deserve their place to shine, to be recognized and understood. Everyone who gets to speak here has important and great contributions and so much to share. And besides the people who get featured here, this is bigger and for everyone.
Henry: Right. If anything, we want this to be an example. To show queer people everywhere, that you can love and be loved and that your life can be full of joy. We want the spotlight we already have and the one we are inevitably going to get after this interview to shine on more than just us two. It’s far more than us two being open in plain sight. It’s for everyone else too.
RF: That sounds like a wonderful way to start this interview. So, I would like to take you back to 2019. Cakegate should still ring a bell, right? Can the royal wedding and your public display of friendship afterwards be seen as a starting point here?
Alex(laughs): Oh, that depends on who you ask.
Henry: Yes, that would be right. I think it is only fair to use this space to reveal that this friendship after Philip’s wedding did in fact start out as a PR-stunt.
Alex: In a way.
Henry: In a way, sure. It was a way to save face for the Crown and the Presidency in the initial stages.
Alex (interrupting with a smile): Be honest here, it was just your elaborate plan to enamor me, when you pushed me into the cake.
Henry: I didn’t push you. You very clearly did that yourself and just pulled me with you.
Alex (jokingly shocked): That is a blatant lie!
RF: Clearly, there is still a disagreement about this. So, if it depends, why don’t you two both give your versions of the story?
Henry: Well, our relationship before the cake was distant at best. I’m sure everyone still remembers the articles about our supposed feud –
Alex: You say supposed, babe – but I was very convinced it was real still.
Henry: That’s right (clears his throat). As I was saying though, we didn’t talk much beforehand and if we did, Alex made sure that each conversation was a fight of some sorts.
Alex (gasps): I did not!
Henry: I’m telling my side of the story, love. You have plenty to talk yourself after. (Alex rolls his eyes a little, smiling at his boyfriend) We’d first met at the Rio Olympics in 2016. I would not classify our first meeting as love at first sight, we didn’t speak much after all and I was – I agree that much with Alex – quite rude to him. But for me, it definitely was attraction at first sight if that’s what you want to call it. And I guess, later, I gave in to the rivalry partly in a form of self-preservation. Being gay and a part of the British Monarchy isn’t the easiest path after all. (Alex takes Henry’s hand and squeezes it as they both share a knowing look that is tinted in sadness)
So, when Phillip’s wedding happened, I didn’t expect anything different to all our previous interactions. We’d avoid each other, maybe bicker a bit and then go our separate ways again. The flaw in that logic was that Alex didn’t like me dancing with his sister and was quite drunk. So, one thing let to another, he came over to me in a defiant mood and when I made it clear that I wouldn’t talk to him drunk, he grabbed my arm. Neither of us accounted for the wedding cake though and that is how we landed in between fondant and chocolate and on the front page of every magazine.
Alex (laughing): Yeah, that’s your version, sweetheart. Mine is a little different. You were indeed very rude in Rio and I was already kind of fed up of the media always comparing us two, so I launched myself into this rivalry. Not love at the first sight in the slightest. And, yeah, sure, I was very enthusiastic and in hindsight it wasn’t really all that necessary and definitely also to cover up some deep bottled-up feelings but – since I didn’t think about that at the time, I was really just furious that you had danced with my sister and seemed to have decided to ignore me. It was only natural to go and confront you about it. So, I did. And well, Henry wasn’t really welcoming my presence and shrugged me off. Me, being the First Son and overall, not accepting to let someone else have the last word did what was obvious – I grabbed his arm to hold him back. And then I lost my balance and really, I only grabbed Henry to steady myself again. He couldn’t do that, so we landed on the floor with the cake. As you can see, very clearly not my fault.
RF: Alright. Sounds like this is something we can’t dissolve so fast. But to continue in the timeline, what happened after the Cake incident went viral and you decided to showcase your friendship?
Alex: well, it was certainly a lot of chaos. My Mom almost immediately sat me down and she and Zahra [Zahra Bankston, President Claremont’s chief commander] told me that I needed to go to England and play nice or else I wouldn’t come out of it quite as alive as before (laughs). Ok, that’s not exactly what they said but it was intimidating, and no one goes against Zahra if she’s raging. So, I begrudgingly agreed and flew to London the next weekend where we did the interview and the visit at the children’s hospital. But that’s all the official part of it that the world knows anyway…what really stuck with me from that first weekend was how I started to rethink what I knew about Henry. Spending that time together made me, and I guess us both really, see a bit of the cracks in the other’s mask. And well, the fact that Buckingham’s guest quarters really need a new interior design stuck with me too.
RF: Can I ask you what cracks you saw in the other’s masks that weekend?
Henry: Sure. I think for me it was the realization that Alex isn’t always as confident as he shows to the world, that he can be anxious but always tries so hard not to show it – to the point where he only does certain things when he’s with the people closest to him. Like, the fact that he wears these adorable black rimmed glasses to read.
Alex: (gasps) Don’t tell them that!
Henry: But you look so good in them, love!
[pause, they look at each other lovingly, seemingly conversing without words]
Henry: (clears his throat) For Alex, I’d say it was the realization that I liked Star Wars that compelled him to give me his number.
Alex: I’m still not over the fact that you flat out refuse to acknowledge Empire as the best one! But you’re right, Hen. That conversation first made me realize that I’d made some premature assumptions about Henry. But really, it was the whole weekend that started my, uhm, re-evaluation of Henry’s character. And, well, it left me curious enough to give him my number and from there it could only go one way anyway…
Henry: You make it sound like it was all smooth sailing from then on…
RF: Which it wasn’t?
Henry: Not exactly. Most of it is quite personal and I – we both – want it to stay that way. Our lives are already happening for the world to see in so many ways. It’s crucial to keep some things for ourselves.
Alex: Absolutely. But I think if I would summarize this quickly, I’ll just quote my sister. According to her I spent the rest of the year right up until New Year’s ‘long distance flirting’ with Henry. Which I did, I’ll admit that much today but back then, well. I was convinced we were merely buddy’s and that I was as straight as they come. But, y’know, we’re here now and you won’t hear me say this often, but I was wrong.
Henry: (laughs) Then, New Year’s came and the Young America’s Gala…
Alex: Excuse me, it’s the Legendary Balls-Out Bananas White House Trio New Year’s Eve Party.
Henry: Yes, also that. But you’re distracting me from my point. We hadn’t seen each other in a while and New Year’s was, as it is normally the case at these events, filled with music and alcohol. It was a great party and a little after midnight I tried what I never would have sober – I kissed Alex.
Alex: It was a little more complicated than that, because I couldn’t for the live of me decipher Hen’s cryptic notions about how he’s not allowed to pursue the people who interest him. It took a kiss and a lot of introspection to understand that he was really only screaming ‘I’m gay, Alex, you dumbass’ at me the whole time.
Henry: I probably wouldn’t have worded it like that but that was essentially my message, yes. It’s just a little more complicated communicating this when you’re not only faced with telling the person you like that you like them. And that’s terrifying on its own. But it was also, that while I had known for a long time that I was gay, I had also known for just as long that I couldn’t…act on it, so to speak. At least not openly.
[They share a hug, Alex whispers something in Henry’s ear, who smiles and nods. Alex kisses him lightly on the forehead]
RF: From what you’ve told me so far, I’d say the both of you had very different experiences realizing your sexuality and coming to terms with it. Are you comfortable sharing a little bit more about your coming out process?
Alex: Yeah, I think I’ll start. I hinted at that earlier, but I thought I was straight pretty much up until Henry kissed me. And after that it took quite some time and conversations with friends to actually admit to myself that I’m bisexual. It wasn’t that there was never anything or anyone before Henry that could have clued me in, I just never connected it to the possibility of being queer. I had girlfriends in high school and it was easy to ignore the way I looked at other boys if I only told myself enough times that I couldn’t be gay since I liked girls too. Which is the text-book definition of internalized biphobia, honestly, but yeah.
RF: You speak about internalized biphobia, is that something that was very present in your life?
Alex: I wouldn’t say yes but I also wouldn’t say no, does that make sense? You see, I grew up in a household full of democrats but also full of Mexicans. Catholic Mexicans. And while I never consciously experienced any hostility or outright homophobia from immediate family or friends, it still lingered in the air around. I mean, we all know what the Catholic church says and I’m Texan. It’s not the most accepting or supportive surrounding to grow up in, no matter how much of a non-issue it might be in your own four-walls. And it very rarely was a conversation topic at all. I don’t blame my parents for not making LGBTQIA+ issues a frequent talking point. I wasn’t out, I didn’t know it so in a way, how could they? But also, that’s the bigger issue underneath it, isn’t it? People don’t talk about it, not necessarily because they are against it but more because they still think in these very heteronormative structures and if their sons date girls and their daughters date boys, where is the problem? Except that is part of it. It erases whole identities. In a way, a lot of the more mainstream perception of the LGBTQIA+ community is still that everyone is either gay or lesbian. It’s this black-and-white, either-or mentality. Its why bi people get told they’re ‘basically gay’ or ‘actually straight but want attention’. Society wants to put everyone into boxes and people who are attracted to more than one gender don’t fit into that. And you know, that’s just one thing. We have to talk about bi-erasure and biphobia. But we also have to talk about trans people. And intersex people. And non-binary people. And ace people. The whole acronym, the entire community. (A pause) God, I ranted now, didn’t I? Sorry (laughs nervously).
RF: No need to apologize – it is important to talk about. And I think you hit a pretty big point we also want to make with this series, so it plays well into that.
Henry, you mentioned you knew you were gay long before you met Alex. Something that came with quite a few hurdles if I understood that correctly?
Henry: Yes. It’s not something I talk much about outside my immediate circle of friends or my therapist, but I want to say this much: for a long time I believed, and was told I had to keep being gay hidden, that it wasn’t right. I think it should come as no shock that the Monarchy and the Church of England aren’t exactly accepting. And while we’re working on changing that, they very much weren’t while I was growing up. I don’t want to point fingers at any persons because I value their privacy in this and there were conversations and apologies. I wouldn’t sit here and give this interview otherwise, I don’t think. Which is, well, not a very uplifting assessment, but it is the truth I believed for a long time. I wasn’t exactly out but I had people take me aside and tell me I’d better not act on my ‘desires’ or else I’d fail to fulfill the requirements of an heir to the throne. I had very dark times because of that. Knowing I could never have anything more than affairs and clandestine hook-ups and would likely be advised to marry a woman someday.
Alex: You can say forced, sweetheart. We’re all thinking it, anyway (Alex’s mouth has formed a hard line as he squeezes Henry’s hand).
Henry: (smiling sadly) Yes, I suppose it is true to admit that. It wasn’t until Alex that I started to change my view. Started to have hope and allow myself to not hide anymore. It was not easy. I don’t think it could have ever been, what with us both being internationally recognizable people in influential positions. There’s a lot that comes with it.
RF: You mean the media?
Alex: That’s a huge part of it, but it’s not everything. We also both have positions that hold power. And we represent more than ourselves. If we go public, like we do with this, it’s not just a spontaneous decision. We need to plan it, statements could need to be drafted, there’s talk about how it might affect public perceptions or votes. It sucks that it has to be that way, that being queer is still something that causes a media frenzy or turns voters away but it’s the world we are in, sadly. I can’t just open Instagram and post a story about our anniversary: that would be a normal thing if I had a couple hundred friends following me. But I have thousands of followers and my Mom’s in the White House. And Henry’s family is literal Royalty in England. And then, of course, there are the tabloids who like to pick everything apart.
RF: Is that a reason as to why you’re doing this interview now instead of, say, two years ago?
Henry: That’s a big reason, if not the main one. We didn’t want to say anything before the elections in 2020 and then, when Ellen [President Claremont] didn’t have to worry about voter perception anymore, we had to work with my side of the family. There were a lot of conversations, things being decided and changed behind closed doors. And then, well, we wanted to keep things quiet for our own sakes. Without the eyes of the media on us every step of our way. Which meant a lot of sneaking around and hours upon hours of late-night phone calls.
Alex: which we are quite skilled at, I might add (laughs).
Henry: I think Zahra would disagree with you, love, but sure.
RF: We’ve covered a lot of topics today and I think there is a lot that is still left unsaid. But as interesting and enlightening as our conversation was, we have to slowly come to an end. I do want to close off with a few last questions: I’m meeting you two in New York City today, which is quite a few miles away from your respective hometowns. What brings you here?
Alex: As some of the readers might know, I’m attending NYU at the moment so I’ve actually been in New York for quite some time now and will be starting my third year of law school soon.
Henry: I’m already terrified about all the All-Nighters he’s going to pull.
Alex: (laughs) I’ll try to keep it to a minimum, but you know I can’t promise anything.
Henry: I’ve just recently moved here permanently. My friend Pez [Percy Okonjo] and I have been working on a nonprofit to establish homeless shelters for queer youth all over the world. Up until a few months ago, Pez was leading most of it and I was in the background, behind the scenes while I worked on minimizing my royal duties and preparing for the move across the ocean. But now I’m here, permanently and I don’t plan on leaving anytime soon.
Alex: You better not or I’m gonna turn up at your doorstep and scream at you in the rain.
[They look at each other, laugh and share a look unreadable to the outside – there clearly seems to be some insider information here that I’m not privy to]
RF: That sounds like there are a lot of plans for you two for the future?
Alex: Oh, there are. I’m not going to let this go. It feels forever and it is. We’ve been through so much, there’s nothing left that could throw a wrench in this relationship. Besides, I’m going to be a lawyer someday soon and if it ever came to it, I’ll have an exhaustive list of arguments why we’re best together.
Henry: I’d never try to argue you on that, Alex. We’re definitely on the same page (smiles). I’d say the same. And as for the shelter, I hope it gets the recognition it deserves and not just because my name is attached to it.
RF: That sounds wonderful. One last question: Alex, I noticed you mentioned an anniversary, is that something coming up soon?
Alex: It is, as a matter of fact.
RF: Do you have anything planned for that? It’ll be your two-year anniversary if my math is correct…
Henry: You’re right. And we don’t have much planned. We’ve only just moved, and I think we’ll mostly enjoy that. And maybe go out for dinner.
Alex: Yeah, probably. It’s perfect enough that we’re together and it feels like we’ve officially mastered all the big hurdles, so it’ll be nice to just be us, you know. Nothing fancy. At the end of the day, that anniversary, and all of our relationship, is between us. If we’re happy with it, with each other, that’s all we need. Like, yes, we’re making it public now and there will be rumors and paparazzi’s and nasty tabloids but as long as we’re okay and love each other, nothing can really faze us.
RF: Those are the perfect closing words, I’d say. Thank you both for this interview.
They thank me as well and invite me to grab a drink with them to round out the day. I can’t with good conscience say no (it’s not every day that the First Son and Prince of England, who are coincidingly two of the friendliest people I’ve met, invite you for a drink) and they lead me downstairs into the brownstone. Between half-opened boxes and array of dog toys - “they’re David’s”, Henry tells me, pointing out the beagle sleeping on a nearby dog bed – Alex produces a bottle of whiskey and three glasses.
When I leave the house an hour later, I do so with an invite to their housewarming party and a few more stories I promise not to tell. Not everything has to be shared with the world and there’s a value in privacy. When I started this interview, I knew I’d be a witness to history in the making, to two people being true to who they are and sharing it with the world. I didn’t expect to also meet two incredibly considerate, bright young men with a clear vision of the world and their place in it but I’m all the more grateful for it. It also never hurts to make new acquaintances and friends who understand both being in the public eye and being queer.
This day will for sure be ingrained in my memory for a long time and I wouldn’t be surprised if the one or other history book mentions it.