Category Change Final Announcement

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2014-05-16 16:02:40 UTC

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Banner by Diane with the outlines of a man and woman speaking with word bubbles, one of which has the OTW logo and the other which says 'OTW Announcement'

The Category Change workgroup is ecstatic to present the final version of how fandom browsing will work in the Archive of Our Own in the future.

This includes deep changes in the way current ‘media categories’ are organized – that is, a heavily reworked grouping of fandoms. You can view current categories in the Fandoms by Media page in the Archive.

This proposal was elaborated based on internal input and the feedback obtained from Archive users, as well as ensuing discussion within the workgroup. You can learn more about the creation of the workgroup and the issues it arose from in our introductory post.

One of our starting points was that our new system should cover several different usages - users should be able to find specific fandoms, or just browse fandom lists and find new fandoms they hadn't thought of. But there were several other goals as well. For example, since fandoms are one of the main and more accessible ways fans can then browse works, it should be as easy and intuitive as possible. The system should be accessible, sustainable and adaptable to changing fandom trends.

It was also important that the system should be translatable, not only words-wise, but culture-wise -- this entails making it as neutral as possible and avoiding, when possible, ethnocentric categorizations.

New Category Types: Country of Origin and Language

Currently, fandoms on the archive are sorted into media categories – Frozen (2013) can be found under Movies for example, and fandoms that fall under multiple categories are listed under multiple categories.

Under this new system, media categories are one of three attributes that fandoms will be sorted by and browsable under. The other two attributes are country of origin and source language.

Like with the current media categories, fandoms will be able to have more than one country or language. What countries are added to a fandom will depend on specific guidelines the Tag Wrangling Committee will set for a particular media or type of fandom. The Tag Wrangling Committee will be also able to rename categories and subcategories and create subscategories.

These will be listed on a fandom landing page, similar to current tag landing pages, that will link to its page in Fanlore and its works and bookmarks in the Archive. A fandom will be allowed more than one attribute of the same type. For example, under this new system, Hana Yori Dango & Related Fandoms could be listed under Japan, Taiwan, Korea and China, in order to incorporate all adaptations.

Instead of the current Fandoms by Media, there will be a page with a search box that will allow users to search for fandoms directly if they know their names or part of their names, and a way to browse country, language and/or media.

The two methods (search and filter) will be combinable. Once a user has selected a combination of attributes, a fandom list will appear, with all fandoms that have those attributes. For example, one can search for any fandom that has 'Batman' in the title, but then refine that search only to English language TV shows.

Media is the only mandatory attribute. Each fandom will have one or more media, and one, multiple, or no Submedia. Each submedia can belong to only one media category. Ideally, fandoms would get all media and submedia that would apply to them, to make sure that anyone who comes looking through this method would find them. Fandoms can be in a media category without being in any of its submedia and there will be a special category for fandoms in this situation.

Defined Media Categories

It's important to remember that this list is not exhaustive and will change in the future. We are not trying to categorize everything that can exist, but rather to organize what already exists in the AO3 while keeping the system flexible enough that new categories can be added in a simple manner. Submedia categories will only be created if they are numerous – more than 40 fandoms and 100 works; these numbers might increase reflecting archive growth – and if it will be a useful browsing category for users.

There will always be fandoms that do not fit any existing or possible category. We cannot and do not aspire to perfection, but rather to the best possible method, one that is strongly based on existing user behavior and usability, rather than philosophical perfection.

We propose eight Media Categories:

Animation, Comics, Manga & Other Sequential Art:

* Animated Films
* Anime & Manga
* (Bande Dessinée)
* English-language Comics and Graphic Novels
* English-language Animated Series and Cartoons
* Webcomics & Animated Webseries
* (Manhwha)
* (Manhua)
* Other Animation, Comics, Manga & Sequential Art

Notes: At this point, there are not enough Manhwha nor Manhua fandoms for the subcategory to be created. Bande Dessinée fandoms does fulfill the numerical requirements for fandoms, but not the requirement for number of fanworks at the moment. Fandoms that qualifies for these subcategories will be placed under the Other Animation, Comics Manga & Sequential Art subcategory.

Audio & Music

* Albums & Songs
* Audio Plays, Radio & Spoken Word
* Other Audio & Music

Books, Literature & Lore

* Religion, Lore & Folk Traditions
* Novels, Novellas & Short Stories
* Poetry
* Other Books & Literature

Performing Arts

* (Ballet & Dance)
* Theater & Musicals
* Other Performing Arts

Notes: The Ballet & Dance subcategory does not currently fulfill numerical requirements. Qualifying fandoms will be placed under Other Performing Arts subcategory.

Games

* Tabletop Roleplaying Games
* Video Games
* Visual Novels
* (Board Games)
* Other Games

Notes: the Board games subcategory currently does not fulfill numerical requirements. Qualifying fandoms will be located in Other Games subcategory.

Live Action Films, TV Shows and Other Productions

* Films
* TV Shows
* Webseries
* Other Live Action Productions

Real Person Fiction

* Actors
* Bands & Musicians
* Political & Historical
* Sports
* Other Real Person Fiction

Other Media

* Paintings, Sculptures and Other Related Art Forms
* Anthropomorphic
* Other Fandoms in Other Media

We believe this proposal solves most issues with the current browsing system and improves it, while also adding flexibility to the Media categories framework – which will allow the AO3 to change it as the Archive itself grows and changes.

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Fabrisse Fri 16 May 2014 04:57PM UTC

So, if I'm reading this correctly, the film of Hamlet with David Tennant could be placed under the Live Action Films, TV, and other productions as a TV show (since it was shown on PBS), the Kenneth Branagh Hamlet would be in the same category under film, and both of them as well as Benedict Cumberbatch's upcoming stage Hamlet could be included under "Other Live Action Productions" as they originated as stage productions.

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??? (Guest) Fri 16 May 2014 05:09PM UTC

So if the Fandoms by Media goes away, how does one browse if one doesn't have a fandom one wants to search for?
And what's up with the weird animation and comics category's triple redundancy?
Anime - animated series or movie from Japan in Japanese
Cartoon - animated series or movie from X in English
and so on.
The other categories aren't so weirdly categorized. You have no Kdrama, you have Jdrama, you have no English-language TV Shows. You have no Jpop, you have no Austropop, you have no English-language Audio, Play & Spoken Words

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1. (Previous comment deleted.)
2. 1. ??? (Guest) Fri 16 May 2014 05:41PM UTC
    
    "There will be a page that will allow users to browse country, language and/or media, as well as searching. "
    The Announcement says that browsing by media will be gone.
    I very sure most people care jackshit about anime and manga in comparison to Castiel and Sterek.
    
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  2. 1. tacky_tramp Fri 16 May 2014 06:29PM UTC
      
      I'm very sure the numerous anime and manga fans who use the archive care quite a bit.
      
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    2. Anime fan here (Guest) Fri 16 May 2014 06:56PM UTC
      
      who kindly requests that you get bent.
      
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    3. Lydia (lydiabell) Fri 16 May 2014 10:54PM UTC
      
      very sure
      such parochial
      wow
      
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    4. June (Guest) Sat 17 May 2014 02:56PM UTC
      
      I assume they're making these changes to encourage more anime/manga fans to use the site, so pointing out that they're currently in the minority seems pretty obtuse.
      
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  3. shamelessly_mkp Fri 16 May 2014 08:03PM UTC
    
    Sorry, I'm just trying to make sure I understand how browsing will work - will it be a similar set up to the way it is now? These changes sound really useful for the most part, but I'm having trouble visualizing how it'll actually work.
    
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Account Deleted Fri 16 May 2014 06:04PM UTC

Could I make a suggestion for the Tag Wranglers? It would be helpful if, in the future, we could differentiate between the importance of pairings within a story. Maybe something like "primary pairing" and "incidental pairing" to note which pairing drives the story and which one occurs in the background. It would make finding femslash in particular much simpler, especially since it's already so hard to find as is.
(Note that I first encountered this suggestion on Tumblr—I didn't come to this idea on my own—but I would but ecstatic to see it implemented.)

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1. tacky_tramp Fri 16 May 2014 06:37PM UTC
  
  Interesting suggestion! But you should already be able to find femslash-primary rather than femslash-incidental by using the pairing type field, no?
  
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2. 1. Account Deleted Fri 16 May 2014 06:41PM UTC
    
    Not necessarily. It may be a quirk of my fandom, but authors will tend to tags two or three relationships on a story and there's usually no indication of which is primary (unless they write a useful summary.)
    So for a Dragon Age story, you might see something tagged with Hawke/Anders, Isabela/Merrill, and Bethany/Fenris. In this scenario, Hawke/Anders will get 90% of the story time, Isabela/Merrill will probably get a passing mention, and Bethany/Fenris might get a chapter.
    If I'm looking for Isabela/Merrill, that isn't really useful to me.
    
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  2. 1. tacky_tramp Fri 16 May 2014 06:46PM UTC
      
      Huh. So the author wouldn't have used the M/M or M/F categorization? Would they have left pairing type blank, or chosen multi or something? Sounds annoying. :)
      
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    2. 1. Account Deleted Fri 16 May 2014 06:48PM UTC
        
        Probably chosen multi. It is annoying! But it comes from a good place, I think. Authors want to make sure they're not going to blindside someone with their mega squick NOTP or something, even in passing, and I appreciate that. But still, arrgghhhh. :]
        
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      2. scribblemyname Mon 06 Jul 2015 02:58PM UTC
        
        As someone who includes multiple pairings in fic, I will check all applicable categorizations. I don't usual note my "in-passing" in categories though. I do list "slight [pairing name]" in relationships and they still show up as a primary pairing because those tags are synned instead of being subtags.
        
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3. ratcreature Fri 16 May 2014 07:14PM UTC
  
  I've seen this as an idea as well. It would be great. The same is true for indicating main and secondary characters, really.
  
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4. 1. AO3_Support (Official) Sat 17 May 2014 01:02AM UTC
    
    Hi, ratcreature!
    Thanks for the suggestion regarding primary and secondary fields for relationship tags and character tags - as I noted to bandofthree, it is a very common request. It's also a complicated one, as it would change how the data for works are both stored and searched, including all of the works already on the Archive, so our coders will have to figure out if it's feasible or a feature the Archive needs. I've noted down your support for the idea in our feature request tracker. If you have any questions, please let us know via a Support ticket!
    Best,
    Sam J.
    AO3 Support
    
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  2. 1. ratcreature Sat 17 May 2014 07:34AM UTC
      
      I don't understand why it would be a big change, when you already have connected and hierarchical tags? I mean, afaik when I browse AU, I see all tagged AU including those tagged just say AU - Modern and AU - Historical, and if I click the latter I see only those. How is that different from having a character tag as parent category with primary/secondary as subcategories? And some people already modify pairing tags in a variety of ways like adding A/B (past) or A/B (unrequited) or such things.
      
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    2. 1. AO3_Support (Official) Sat 17 May 2014 02:36PM UTC
        
        Hi again, ratcreature:
        Part of the complexity is that currently, the system does not allow us to create a link between tags across the different tag types. "Alice/Becky" may be a Relationship tag, but if "Past Alice/Becky" is an Additional (Freeform) tag, there is no way to connect them. So either the coders have to either figure a way to make one tag type work in two fields or make separate types that are connectable in a way that the search and filter tool understands. Either way, it's a fair amount of changes to the underlying code.
        The decision to only have the base relationship "Alice/Becky" canonized in the Relationship field, and canonize "Past Alice/Becky", "Minor Alice/Becky", et al. when they appear in the Additional tags field is a decision of the Tag Wrangling committee. I will pass your feedback on to them to consider for future guideline reviews!
        Best,
        Sam J.
        AO3 Support
        
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    3. scribblemyname Mon 06 Jul 2015 03:00PM UTC
      
      It wouldn't be hard to at least let "slight [pairing name]" or "minor [pairing name]" tags or "cameo [character name]" tags be sub-tags instead of synned tags. As long as they're synonymous with the full-blown tag, there's no incentive to differentiate for search purposes, only browsing purposes.
      I've seen "slight", "minor", "cameo", and "background" used in tags, but they're all synned and it makes no difference.
      
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    4. 1. CJ of Support (AO3_Support) (Official) Mon 13 Jul 2015 01:45AM UTC
        
        Hi, Scribblemyname:
        Apologies for the late reply. There are a number of factors that would indeed make it hard. Foremost, due to the impact on the servers, the Tag Wranglers are working on revising the guidelines to significantly reduce the number of subtag trees. Secondly, if the "secondary X/Y" relationship tags were subtagged, they would still be in the search results for "X/Y". Thirdly, they simply do not feel they have the volunteer resources to break apart the thousands of tag relationships, and the effect of all the rewrangling on the servers would preclude any other wrangling for a significant amount of time.
        If you have any other questions, let us know!
        Best,
        Sam J.
        AO3 Support
        
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5. alassenya Fri 16 May 2014 10:47PM UTC
  
  Great suggestion -- most times the first-listed pairing is the main one, but I've been caught out too many times now to rely on that. I know I can also scroll down to the end and see which pair gets the final paragraph but that risks spoilers. I would definitely love a way to distinguish between main pairing and secondary / background pairing.
  
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6. 1. AO3_Support (Official) Sat 17 May 2014 01:03AM UTC
    
    Hi, alassenya!
    Thanks for the suggestion regarding primary and secondary fields for relationship tags - as you can see, it is a very common request. It's also, as noted, a complicated one, so our coders will have to figure out if it's feasible or a feature the Archive needs. I've noted down your support for the idea in our feature request tracker. If you have any questions, please let us know via a Support ticket!
    Best,
    Sam J.
    AO3 Support
    
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  2. 1. alassenya Sat 17 May 2014 01:10AM UTC
      
      I figured it wouldn't be all that easy or it would already be a feature. Thanks for considering it though.
      
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    2. adventuring Tue 20 May 2014 08:43AM UTC
      
      I also support this idea.
      
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7. AO3_Support (Official) Sat 17 May 2014 01:00AM UTC
  
  Hi!
  Thanks for the suggestion regarding primary and secondary fields for relationship tags. As you can see from this thread, it (and a similar request for character tags) is a very common request. It's also a complicated one, as it would change how the data for works are both stored and searched, including all of the works already on the Archive, so our coders will have to figure out if it's feasible or a feature the Archive needs. I've noted down your support for the idea in our feature request tracker. If you have any questions, please let us know via a Support ticket!
  Best,
  Sam J.
  AO3 Support
  
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Lydia (lydiabell) Fri 16 May 2014 11:47PM UTC

I know there've been requests for a user dashboard where people could have links to the fandoms they use most often. Has there been any discussion of implementing that?

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1. AO3_Support (Official) Sat 17 May 2014 02:26PM UTC
  
  Hi, Lydia:
  It looks like creating some way to favorite fandoms has been approved for future development. However, the coders will have to find a time to figure out what will work, and test and implement it, so I can't say when it might be available.
  Best,
  Sam J.
  AO3 Support
  
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2. 1. Lydia (lydiabell) Sat 17 May 2014 07:58PM UTC
    
    Thanks, Sam. I'm glad to hear it's been approved.
    
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Anonymous (Guest) Sat 17 May 2014 12:00AM UTC

Would you mind splitting Historical RPF from Political RPF/any RPF involving still living people? People who are comfortable with one might not be comfortable with the other.

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Vera Sat 17 May 2014 12:54AM UTC

Tag wrangler here. Congratulations and thank you for bringing this massive task to an implementable solution.

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BTW (Guest) Sat 17 May 2014 12:59AM UTC

The proper spelling is "manhwa" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhwa).

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msilverstar Sun 18 May 2014 06:19AM UTC

I applaud your IA: many fanworks belong in multiple categories and this seems flexible enough to support that. Also, longer explanatory labels are better than trying to create a grouping label that no one recognizes.
The one problem with this new approach, if it's based on your design for the main page:
http://transformativeworks.org/sites/default/files/CatChangeImage1.png
is that the main page will change all the time. People who are used to navigating a mostly-static page have undoubtedly gotten attached to it.
So I suggest a By Media Browser page that provides most of the same functionality of the current home page and changes organization slowly if at all. Presumably this could be generated periodically by the system using the facets/fields and then cached to avoid continuous load. People who have come to rely on the current functionality could use this without needing to change drastically.

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Evalangui Sun 18 May 2014 08:39AM UTC

Looks good! :)

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susnn (Guest) Tue 20 May 2014 03:03AM UTC

Please consider adding a category for searches that would return only stories with no pairings. While gen is used by several fandom for that purpose, here it seems to identify non graphic sex stories. Thank you.

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1. AO3_Support (Official) Tue 20 May 2014 07:06PM UTC
  
  Hi, susnn!
  Apart from the Gen category (that, as you point out, in some fandoms isn't always used to tag works with no romantic relationships, but sometimes works where they aren't the focus, etc.), you can also include the following in the Search within results field so that the Archive will only return works with no relationship tags at all:
  -relationship_ids:*
  You can read other tips on how to browse and search the Archive in these posts: http://archiveofourown.org/admin_posts?tag=103
  If you have any questions or suggestions on Archive functionality unrelated to the fandom category change, please don't hesitate to contact Support using the Support and Feedback form.
  Best,
  hele
  AO3 Support
  
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Psyga315 Tue 20 May 2014 04:44PM UTC

Out of curiosity, how many fandoms need to be in a certain category before it begins to split off? (I'm talking of course of Board Games)

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2. 1. Psyga315 Tue 20 May 2014 06:47PM UTC
    
    Okay.
    
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Confused by change (Guest) Wed 21 May 2014 11:49AM UTC

Hello,
These seem very complicated now but I'm sure we will get used to them!
I have a couple of questions:
1. How will we find authors or musicians' works in this system? If I wanted to find, for example, fanfiction for the works of Fred Smith who has written several novels, two plays and a poem, will there still be a general tag e.g. SMITH Fred - Works (and where would that be?) or would I have to look for the fandoms individually under the different subcategories?
2. Is it right that animated films are no longer listed alongside other films, but 'shelved' under 'Animation, Comics, Manga & Other Sequential Art'? They can't be both? So there isn't a category just for films that you can browse?
3. Currently Films and TV Shows are main categories, but they're being downgraded to sub-categories underneath the 'Live Action' banner. Since these are large, popular categories doesn't that just mean more clicking and scrolling before you can find the fandom you're looking for than there is now? (I'm having trouble seeing this as easy and intuitive!) Or will there be a shortcut from the home page so we could jump straight to the subcategory?
4. What does 'other live action productions' actually mean? Presumably not plays, they would go under theatre & musicals?
5. Why is Religion, Lore & Folk Traditions first on its list of subcategories when alphabetically it should go last? Everything else seems to be in alphabetical order.
Okay, I had more questions than I thought, sorry.

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2. 1. Confused By Change (Guest) Wed 28 May 2014 08:50PM UTC
    
    Thank you for your response!
    So music videos will be with Live Action rather than in music? Or could they be in both too? What if they're animated videos...?
    I hope my questions didn't come across as criticisms. It's clearly a massive job that you are undertaking here.
    
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JordannaMorgan Thu 22 May 2014 01:03AM UTC

It's been made very clear that no one besides me is ever going to care, but I'm still unhappy to have anime and manga lumped into the same category.
I'll say it again: anime adaptations can be wildly different from the source manga, and mere tags for the different canons don't adequately represent that fact (or, quite often, are entirely misused). Those of us who like the less popular version of a franchise will continue to get the short straw in browsing options, here just as everywhere else.

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1. Nonny (Guest) Wed 28 May 2014 08:30PM UTC
  
  I care, but have been told every time that the "real" fans know what every other fan wants and that this the one true way how fandom should be and how dare you want to classify anime and manga in other way.
  (*slinks back to own collection, where the manga stand next to the comics and the anime stand next to the cartoons on a different shelf*)
  Maybe it's due to the fact I only get fannish for manga and anime adaptions of the same material, if they are different from each other.
  
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2. 1. JordannaMorgan Wed 28 May 2014 10:07PM UTC
    
    *HUGS YOU!* <3
    It's amazing, and hugely appreciated, to hear that even *one* other person feels the same way I do about this. Thank you so much for commenting. It at least makes me feel better to know I'm not completely alone, even if the problem will never change anyway.
    It really doesn't even make sense. Sites *do* categorize movie adaptations of *American* comic books separately from the comics themselves. I will simply never understand why fans of divergent-from-manga-canon anime can't get the same consideration.
    
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theApplemint (Guest) Fri 05 Aug 2016 10:43AM UTC

I want to request a new category for the Visual Novel category for an indie visual novel game, Lads In Distress.

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